“Tatou te taooto ma o tatou tino mai le taeao e oo i le afiafi—i isi ma i tatou lava”

Psychology: Pe tatou te lagonaina o tatou tino o se vaega o i tatou lava? Pe tatou te lagonaina le tino ese, ma o tatou lava uiga eseese?

Marina Baskakova: I le tasi itu, o tagata taʻitoʻatasi, i se tulaga lautele, e iai lana lava sootaga ma le tino. I le isi itu, e mautinoa lava o loʻo i ai se faʻalapotopotoga faʻale-aganuʻu i totonu tatou te faʻafesoʻotaʻi ma o tatou tino. O le taimi nei o ituaiga uma o faiga e lagolagoina le gauai atu i le tino, i ana faailo, ma gafatia ua lauiloa. O i latou e feagai ma i latou e vaai i ai e ese teisi nai lo i latou e mamao mai ia i latou. I la tatou aganuu Kerisiano, aemaise lava le Orthodox, o loo tumau pea lenei paolo o le vaevaega i le agaga ma le tino, agaga ma le tino, o le tagata lava ia ma le tino. E mafua mai i lea mea le mea ua ta'ua o le mea e faatatau i le tino. O lona uiga, o se ituaiga o mea e mafai ona e taulimaina, faʻaleleia, teuteu, fausia maso maso, ma isi. Ma o lenei faʻamoemoe e taofia ai se tasi mai le iloaina o ia lava o se tino, o lona uiga, o se tagata atoa.

O le a le uiga o lenei amio sa'o?

Sei o tatou mafaufau po o le a. E pei ona ou fai atu, i Kerisiano, aemaise lava Orthodox, aganuu, o le tino ua vavae ese mo le faitau afe o tausaga. Afai tatou te faia se faʻamatalaga lautele lautele o le sosaiete o tagata i le lautele, o le fesili la: o le tino e ave le tagata poʻo le isi itu? O ai e ofuina o ai, e tusa ai ma le tautala.

E manino lava ua vavaeeseina i tatou faaletino mai isi tagata, e tofu i tatou ma lona lava tino. I lenei tulaga, o le gauai atu i le tino, i ana faailo, e lagolagoina ai se meatotino e pei o le tagata lava ia. I le taimi lava e tasi, o aganuu uma, ioe, e lagolagoina se tasi o le tuufaatasia o tagata: tatou te lotogatasi, tatou te lagona le mea e tasi, e tele a tatou mea e tutusa ai. O se itu taua tele lea o le olaga. O se mea e tupu ai se sootaga i le va o tagata o le atunuu e tasi, tasi le aganuu, tasi le sosaiete. Ae o le fesili e tulaʻi mai i le paleni i le va o tagata taʻitoʻatasi ma agafesootai. Afai, mo se faʻataʻitaʻiga, o le muamua e matua lagolagoina, ona liliu atu lea o se tagata ia te ia lava ma ona manaʻoga, ae amata ona paʻu ese mai faʻalapotopotoga lautele. O nisi taimi e lagona ai le tuulafoaiina, aua ua avea ma se mea e ese mai i le i ai o le tele o isi. O lenei mea e mafua ai le lotoleaga ma le ita. Mo tagata taʻitoʻatasi, i se tulaga lautele, e tatau ona e totogia. Ma le isi itu, afai e faasino se tagata i le "matou" taliaina lautele, i mataupu uma o loʻo i ai, masani, ona ia tausia lea o se manaʻoga taua tele mo le auai. Ou te auai i se aganuu patino, o se nuu patino, faaletino ou te iloa o se tagata. Ae ona tulai mai ai lea o se feteenaiga i le va o le tagata ma le tagata e taliaina lautele. Ma i lo tatou tulaga fa'aletino o lenei fete'ena'iga o lo'o fa'aalia manino lava.

It is curious how the perception of corporality differs in our country and, for example, in France. It always amazes me there when someone, having come to a conference or to a secular company, suddenly comes out, saying: «I’m going to go make wee-wee.» They take it as completely normal. It’s hard to imagine this in our country, although in fact there is nothing indecent in this. Why do we have a completely different culture of talking about the simplest things?

Ou te manatu o le ala lea o le vaeluaga i le faaleagaga ma le tino, i luga ma lalo, o uiga ia o la tatou aganuu, e aliali mai. O mea uma lava e fa'atatau i le "wee-wee", galuega fa'anatura, o lo'o i lalo, i totonu o lena vaega fa'ale-aganu'u ua teena. E faapena foi ona faatatau i feusuaiga. E ui lava e foliga mai o mea uma lava e uiga ia te ia. Ae faapefea? Ae, i tulaga o mea. Ou te vaai atu i ulugalii e o mai i le taligamalo o loo faigata lava ona fesootai le tasi i le isi. E ui lava o loʻo i ai le tele o mea e mafai ona taʻua o feusuaiga faʻafeusuaiga, e le fesoasoani tele i tagata i mafutaga vavalalata, ae faʻalavelave ai. Ua faigofie ona talanoa e uiga i ai, ae, i se isi itu, ua faigata ona talanoa e uiga i nisi o lagona, e uiga io latou nuances. Ae ui i lea, e tumau pea lenei va. Na ona liliu lava. Ma i Farani poʻo, sili atu lautele, aganuʻu Katoliko, e leai se teena malosi o le tino ma le tino.

Pe e te manatu ea e malamalama lelei tagata uma i lona tino? Pe tatou te mafaufau ea i ona fua moni, tapulaa, fua?

E le mafai ona fai atu e uiga i tagata uma. Ina ia faia lenei mea, e tatau ona e feiloai ma tagata uma, talanoa ma malamalama i se mea e uiga ia te ia. E mafai ona ou taʻu atu ia te oe nisi o foliga o loʻo ou feagai. E tele mea e oʻo mai i le taliaina o tagata e le o iai se malamalamaga manino ia i latou lava o se tagata ma o se tagata o loʻo i totonu o le tino. E i ai i latou o loo i ai se vaaiga sese i lo latou lava lapopoa, ae latou te le iloaina.

Mo se faʻataʻitaʻiga, o se tagata matua, tagata lapoʻa e fai mai "uʻu", "vae" ia te ia lava, faʻaaoga nisi upu faʻaititia ... O le a le mea e mafai ona talanoa i ai? E uiga i le mea moni e faapea i nisi vaega o ia e le o tutusa tausaga, e le o le tele o loo i ai. O se mea i ona uiga, i lona poto masani patino, e sili atu ona fesootai ma le tamaitiiti. E masani ona taʻua o le infantilism. E i ai i tamaitai se isi faʻalavelave lea ou te matauina foi: latou te mananao ia laiti. E mafai ona manatu o se ituaiga o le teenaina o lo latou tele.

Psychologists talk about how important it is to be able to hear the signals of your body — it can be fatigue, pain, numbness, irritation. At the same time, in popular publications, we are often offered a decoding of these signals: a headache means something, and back pain means something. But can they really be interpreted that way?

When I read this kind of statements, I see one important feature. The body is spoken of as if it were isolated. Where are the body signals? Body signals to whom? Body signals in what situation? If we talk about psychosomatics, some of the signals are intended for the person himself. Pain, who is it for? In general, me. To stop doing something that hurts me. And in this case, the pain becomes a very respected part of us. If you take fatigue, discomfort — this signal refers to some neglected, often ignored part. It is customary for us to not notice fatigue. Sometimes a pain signal is intended for the person in a relationship with whom this pain occurs. When it is difficult for us to say, it is difficult to express our feelings or there is no reaction to our words.

Then the psychosomatic symptoms already say that you need to distance yourself from this, do something else, finally pay attention to yourself, get sick. Get sick — that is, get out of a traumatic situation. It turns out that one traumatic situation is replaced by another, more understandable one. And you can stop being too hard on yourself. When I get sick, I feel a little less ashamed that I can’t cope with something. There is such a legal argument that supports my personal self-respect. I believe that many illnesses help a person to slightly change his attitude towards himself for the better.

We often hear the phrase «The body does not lie.» How do you understand it?

O le mea e ese ai, o se fesili faigata. E masani ona faʻaaogaina e fomaʻi tino lenei fuaitau. E foliga aulelei o ia, i lo’u manatu. I le tasi itu, e moni lenei mea. O se faaaʻoaʻoga, e vave ona iloa e le tinā o se tamaitiiti ua maʻi. Ua ia iloa atu ua faanenefu ona mata, ua mou atu le olaola. Ua faailoa mai e le tino se suiga. Ae i le isi itu, afai tatou te manatua le natura lautele o le tagata, o lona uiga o le afa o lo tatou ola faaletino e aofia ai le pepelo i isi e uiga ia i tatou lava. O lo'o ou saofai sa'o, e ui ina ou mana'o e fa'avaivai, o nisi ituaiga o lagona e le sa'o. Po o, mo se faataitaiga, ou te ataata, ae o le mea moni ou te ita.

O loʻo i ai foʻi faʻatonuga i le auala e amio ai ina ia mafai ai ona tuʻuina atu le lagona o se tagata mautinoa ...

I se tulaga lautele, tatou te taoto ma o tatou tino mai le taeao i le afiafi, ma i tatou foi. O se faaaʻoaʻoga, pe a tatou lē amanaʻia le vaivai, e foliga mai ua tatou faapea ifo iā i tatou lava: “E sili atu loʻu malosi nai lo o loo e taumafai e faailoa mai iā te aʻu.” O le fomaʻi o le tino, i le avea ai o se tagata poto faapitoa, e mafai ona faitau faʻailoga a le tino ma faʻavae lana galuega i luga. Ae o loo pepelo le vaega o totoe o lenei tino. O nisi maso e lagolagoina le matapulepule lea e tuʻuina atu i isi tagata.

O a ni auala e te lagona ai le lelei i lou tino, ia sili atu lou nofouta i ai, ia malamalama i ai, ia atili faauo i ai?

E tele avanoa: siva, pese, savali, aau, fai yoga ma isi mea. Ae o le galuega taua o le matauina o mea ou te fiafia i ai ma mea ou te le fiafia i ai. A'oa'o oe lava ia iloa na faailo o le tino. Ou te fiafia pe taofia aʻu lava i totonu o le faʻavae o lenei gaioiga. E pei lava/le fiafia, mana'o/le mana'o, e te le mana'o/ae ou te faia. Aua o loo ola pea tagata matutua i lea tulaga. Ma e fesoasoani tele i le na o le iloaina o oe lava. Fai le mea na e mana'o e fai. Saili se taimi mo lenei mea. O le fesili autu o le taimi e le faapea e leai. Ma o le mea moni tatou te le tu'ufa'atasia. O lea ia ave ma i lau faʻatulagaga e faʻasoa taimi mo le fiafia. Mo le tasi o loʻo savali, mo le isi o loʻo pese, mo le lona tolu o loʻo taoto i luga o le moega. O le faʻaaluina o le taimi o le upu autu.

The interview was recorded for the joint project of Psychologies magazine and radio «Culture» «Status: in a relationship» in April 2017.