O loʻo faʻateleina le vevesi i totonu o sosaiete, o loʻo faʻaalia e le au pulega le le agavaa, ma tatou te lagona le leai o se malosi ma le fefe. O fea e suʻe ai punaoa i se tulaga faapena? O loʻo matou taumafai e vaʻavaʻai i le olaga faʻaagafesootai e ala i mata o le saienitisi faaupufai Ekaterina Shulman.
More than a year ago, we began to follow with interest the publications and speeches of the political scientist Ekaterina Shulman: we were fascinated by the soundness of her judgments and the clarity of her language. Some even call her a «collective psychotherapist.» We invited an expert to the editorial office to figure out how this effect occurs.
Psychology: E i ai se lagona o loo tupu se mea taua tele i le lalolagi. Suiga o le lalolagi e faaosofia ai nisi tagata, ae popole isi.
Ekaterina Shulman: What is happening in the global economy is often referred to as the “fourth industrial revolution”. What is meant by this? First, the spread of robotics, automation and informatization, the transition to what is called the “post-labor economy”. Human labor takes on other forms, since industrial production is obviously moving into the strong hands of robots. The main value will not be material resources, but the added value — what a person adds: his creativity, his thought.
O le vaega lona lua o suiga o le manino. O le faalilolilo, e pei ona malamalama i ai muamua, ua tuua i tatou ma, e foliga mai, o le a le toe foi mai, o le a tatou nonofo i nofoaga faitele. Ae o le a manino foi le setete ia i tatou. O le taimi nei, ua matala mai se ata o le mana i le lalolagi atoa, lea e leai ni tagata popoto o Siona ma ni ositaulaga i ofu talaloa, ae o loo i ai ni tagata fenumiai, e le o ni a’oa’oga tele, manatu faapito ma le le alolofa tele o tagata o loo galulue i o latou tulaga. fa'alavelave fa'afuase'i.
O se tasi lea o mafuaʻaga o suiga faʻapolokiki o loʻo tutupu i le lalolagi: o le faʻaleagaina o le pule, o le faʻaumatiaina o lona malu paia o le faalilolilo.
E foliga mai o loʻo toʻatele tagata le agavaa o loʻo siomia ai.
O le suiga o le Initaneti, aemaise lava le mauaina o le Initaneti mai masini feaveaʻi, ua aumaia ai i talanoaga lautele tagata e leʻi auai muamua i ai. Mai lea mea ua i ai se lagona o soo se mea e tumu i tagata le iloa faitautusi o loʻo tautala faʻavalevalea, ma o soʻo se manatu valea e tutusa le mamafa ma se manatu faʻavae. E foliga mai ia i tatou ua o mai le motu o tagata ulavavale i le palota ma o loʻo palota mo isi e pei o latou. O le mea moni, o le faatemokalasi lea. I le taimi muamua, oi latou sa i ai le punaoa, manaʻoga, avanoa, taimi na auai i le palota ...
Ma o nisi e fiafia…
Yes, the ability to understand what is happening, why vote, which candidate or party suits their interests. This requires quite a serious intellectual effort. In recent years, the level of wealth and education in societies — especially in the first world — has risen radically. The information space has become open to everyone. Everyone received not only the right to receive and disseminate information, but also the right to speak out.
O le a se mea ou te vaai i ai e fai ma mafuaaga mo le fa'amalieina lelei? Ou te talitonu i le talitonuga o le faaitiitia o sauaga
Ole suiga lea e fa'atusaina ile mea fou ole lomitusi. Ae ui i lea, o na faiga tatou te vaʻaia o ni faʻalavelave e le faʻaumatia moni ai le sosaiete. O loʻo i ai le toe faʻatulagaina o le paoa, faiga faʻaiʻuga. I se tulaga lautele, e aoga le faatemokalasi. O le faatosinaina o tagata fou e leʻi auai muamua i faiga faʻapolokiki o se suʻega mo se faiga faʻatemokalasi. Ae ou te vaai atu mo le taimi nei e mafai ona ia tatalia, ma ou te manatu o le a iu lava ina ola. Talosia ia o faiga e le'i oo ina matua faatemokalasi o le a le afaina i lenei tofotofoga.
O le a le foliga o le sitiseni anoa i se faiga faatemokalasi e le matua matutua?
There are no secrets or secret methods here. The Information Age gives us a large set of tools to help unite according to interests. I mean civil interest, not stamp collecting (although the latter is fine too). Your interest as a citizen may be that you don’t close down a hospital in your neighborhood, cut down a park, build a tower in your yard, or tear down something you like. If you are employed, it is in your interest that your labor rights are protected. It is striking that we do not have a trade union movement — despite the fact that the majority of the population is employed.
E le faigofie ona ave ma fausia se iuni fefaʻatauaʻiga ...
E mafai ona e mafaufau i ai. Ia e iloa o ona foliga vaaia e te fiafia i ai. O le sootaga lea ma le mea moni ou te valaau atu ai. O le faʻapotopotoga o mea e fiafia i ai o le faʻavaeina lea o le faʻasologa e suitulaga i faʻalapotopotoga a le setete e le o lelei le faʻaogaina.
Since 2012, we have been conducting a pan-European study of the social well-being of citizens — the Eurobarometer. It studies the number of social bonds, strong and weak. Strong ones are close relationships and mutual assistance, and weak ones are only information exchange, acquaintances. Every year people in our country talk about more and more connections, both weak and strong.
Masalo e lelei?
O lenei mea e faʻaleleia atili ai le soifua manuia lautele e oʻo lava i le tauia o le le fiafia i le faiga o le setete. Ua tatou vaai atu e le o tuua na o i tatou, ma ua tau le lava le fiafia. Mo se faʻataʻitaʻiga, o se tasi e (e tusa ai ma ona lagona) e tele ana fesoʻotaʻiga faʻaagafesootai e sili atu ona faʻamalosi e fai nogatupe: "Afai ei ai se mea, latou te fesoasoani mai ia te aʻu." Ma i le fesili "Afai e leiloa lau galuega, e faigofie mo oe ona maua?" ua ia tali mai: “Ioe, i aso e tolu!”
O lenei faiga lagolago e fa'amuamua uo fa'asalalau fa'asalalau?
E aofia ai. Ae o fesoʻotaʻiga i totonu o le vateatea e fesoasoani i le faʻatupulaia o le numera o fesoʻotaʻiga i le mea moni. E lē gata i lea, ua mou atu le uunaʻiga a le malo o Soviet, lea na faasā ai i matou e toʻatolu ona faapotopoto, e oo lava i le faitau o Lenin. Ua tupu le tamaoaiga, ma ua amata ona matou fausia i luga o le fogafale pito i luga o le "Maslow pyramid", ma o loʻo i ai foi se manaʻoga mo gaioiga faʻatasi, mo le faʻatagaga mai le tuaoi.
Ole tele o mea e tatau ona fai e le setete mo i tatou, matou te faʻatulagaina mo i matou lava faʻafetai i fesoʻotaʻiga
And again, informatization. How was it before? A person leaves his city to study — and that’s it, he will return there only for the funeral of his parents. In a new place, he creates social connections from scratch. Now we carry our connections with us. And we make new contacts much easier thanks to new means of communication. It gives you a sense of control over your life.
Pe na'o le olaga patino po'o le setete e fa'atatau i lenei talitonuga?
Tatou te faaitiitia le faalagolago i le setete ona o le mea moni o tatou lava matagaluega o le soifua maloloina ma aoaoga, leoleo ma le auaunaga tuaoi. Ole tele o mea e tatau ona fai e le setete mo i tatou, matou te faʻatulagaina mo i matou lava faʻafetai i a matou fesoʻotaʻiga. O le iʻuga, faʻalavelave, o loʻo i ai se faʻasesega o loʻo sologa lelei mea ma, o le mea lea, o loʻo galue lelei le setete. E ui ina tatou le vaai soo ia te ia. Fai mai tatou te le o i le falema'i, ae vili na'o le foma'i. Matou te auina atu le ma fanau i le aoga e fautuaina e uo. O loʻo matou suʻeina tagata mama, tausimaʻi ma tausi fale i fesoʻotaʻiga lautele.
That is, we just live «among our own», without influencing decision-making? About five years ago, it seemed that networking would bring real change.
O le mea moni i totonu o faiga faʻapolokiki o le malosi faʻamalosi e le o le tagata, ae o le faʻalapotopotoga. Afai e te le faʻatulagaina, e te le o iai, e leai sau faʻapolokiki. Matou te manaʻomia se faʻatulagaga: o le Sosaiete mo le Puipuiga o Tamaitai mai Sauaga, se iuni fefaʻatauaʻiga, se pati, se faʻatasi a matua popole. Afai ei ai sau fausaga, e mafai ona e faia ni gaioiga faʻapolokiki. A leai, o lau gaioiga e faʻapitoa. Sa latou o i auala, sa latou o ese. Ona tupu ai lea o se isi mea, na latou toe o ese.
E sili atu le manuia ma saogalemu le ola i se faiga faatemokalasi pe a faatusatusa i isi pulega
Ina ia maua se tagata lautele, e tatau i se tasi ona i ai se faʻalapotopotoga. O fea na sili ona manuia ai a tatou sosaiete lautele? I le va fealoai: leoleoga ma le tausiga, falemaʻi, faʻamaʻi tiga, puipuiga o aia tatau a tagata mamaʻi ma pagota. O suiga i nei vaega na faia i lalo o le uunaiga mai faalapotopotoga e le o ni tupe mama. Latou te ulufale atu i totonu o fausaga faʻaletulafono e pei o fono faʻapitoa, tusia galuega, faʻamaonia, faʻamatala, ma a maeʻa sina taimi, faatasi ai ma le lagolago a le aufaasālalau, suiga i tulafono ma faiga masani e faia.
Po'o tu'uina atu ea e fa'asaienisi fa'apolokiki ni fa'avae mo le fa'amoemoe i aso nei?
E fa'alagolago i le mea e te ta'ua o le fa'amoemoe. O le fa'amoemoe ma le fa'aletonu o ni manatu fa'atatau. Pe a tatou talanoa e uiga i le mautu o faiga faʻapolokiki, pe faʻaosofia ea lenei mea i le faʻamoemoe? O nisi e fefefe i se osofaʻiga, a o isi, masalo, o loʻo faʻatali i ai. O le a se mea ou te vaai i ai e fai ma mafuaaga mo le fa'amoemoe lelei? Ou te talitonu i le talitonuga o le faʻaitiitia o sauaga na faʻatuina e le fomaʻi mafaufau o Steven Pinker. O le mea muamua e taʻitaʻia ai le faʻaitiitia o sauaga o le mea tonu lava lea o le setete tutotonu, lea e ave faʻamalosi i ona lava lima.
E iai foʻi isi vala. Fefaʻatauaʻiga: o se tagata faʻatau ola e sili atu ona aoga nai lo se fili oti. Fa'afafine: tele fafine e auai i le olaga fa'aagafesootai, ua fa'atupula'ia tulaga taua o tama'ita'i. Globalization: matou te vaʻai o tagata e nonofo i soʻo se mea ma e leai se mea e ulu ai latou. Ma le mea mulimuli, faʻamatalaga faʻamatalaga, saoasaoa ma le faigofie o le mauaina o faʻamatalaga. I le lalolagi muamua, o taua i luma, pe a tau le taua e lua o le tasi ma le isi, ua le mafai.
O le mea e sili ona leaga o loʻo i tua ia i tatou?
In any case, it is more profitable and safer to live under democracy compared to other regimes. But the progress we are talking about does not cover the entire Earth. There may be «pockets» of history, black holes into which individual countries fall. While people in other countries are enjoying the XNUMXst century, honor killings, «traditional» values, corporal punishment, disease and poverty are flourishing there. Well, what can I say — I would not like to be among them.