"Vaai ia te ia": o se faatalanoaga ma Anna Starobinets

Psychology: Aiseā na tali atu ai fomaʻi Rusia i se auala faapena i fesili e uiga i le faapau pepe? E le faia ea e falema'i uma lea tulaga i totonu o le tatou atunuu? Po o le faasolitulafono o le faapau pepe tuai? O le a le mafuaaga o se mafutaga uiga ese?

Anna Starobinets: I Rusia, naʻo falemaʻi faʻapitoa o loʻo galulue i le faʻamutaina o le maʻitaga mo mafuaaga faʻafomaʻi i le taimi tuai. O le mea moni, e fa'atulafonoina lenei mea, ae na'o totonu lava o nofoaga fa'apitoa. Mo se faʻataʻitaʻiga, i totonu o le falemaʻi faʻamaʻi faʻamaʻi tutusa i Sokolina Gora, lea e matua fiafia lava e faʻafefe fafine maʻitaga i falemaʻi faʻanatinatal.

Fa'atofa i se tamaititi: o le tala ia Anna Starobinets

O se fafine e feagai ma le manaʻoga e faʻamutaina se maʻitaga i se aso mulimuli ane e le maua le avanoa e filifili ai se falemaʻi e fetaui ma ia. Ae, o le filifiliga e masani lava e le sili atu i le lua nofoaga faʻapitoa.

As for the reaction of doctors: it is connected with the fact that in Russia there is absolutely no moral and ethical protocol for working with such women. That is, roughly speaking, subconsciously any doctor — whether ours or German — feels a desire to distance himself from such a situation. None of the doctors want to take delivery of a dead fetus. And none of the women do not want to give birth to a dead child.

Pau lava le mea o loʻo i ai i fafine se manaʻoga faapena. Ma mo fomaʻi o loʻo laki e galulue i fale e le o feagai ma faʻalavelave (o lona uiga, o le tele o fomaʻi), e leai se manaʻoga. O mea latou te taʻu atu i fafine ma le toomaga ma le tele o le inoino, e aunoa ma le faʻamamaina o upu ma le leo. Aua e leai se tulafono fa'aletulafono.

O iinei e tatau foi ona maitauina o nisi taimi, e pei ona aliali mai, e le o iloa e fomaʻi o loʻo i ai pea i totonu o latou falemaʻi le avanoa o sea faʻalavelave. Mo se faʻataʻitaʻiga, i le ogatotonu o Moscow. Kulakov, na taʻu mai ia te aʻu "latou te le taulimaina mea faapena." O ananafi na fa’afesoota’i mai ai a’u e le pulega o lenei nofoaga ma fa’ailoa mai o le tausaga e 2012 o lo’o latou faia ai lava mea fa’apea.

Ae ui i lea, e le pei o Siamani, lea o loʻo fausia ai se faiga e fesoasoani ai i se tagata maʻi i se faʻalavelave faʻalavelave ma o tagata faigaluega taʻitoʻatasi o loʻo i ai se faʻamatalaga manino o gaioiga i se tulaga faapena, e leai se matou faiga. O le mea lea, o se fomaʻi ultrasound faʻapitoa i faʻamaʻi maʻitaga atonu e le o iloa o loʻo galue lana falemaʻi i le faʻamutaina o nei maʻitaga faʻamaʻi, ma ua talitonu ana pule e le tatau ona ia iloa, aua o lana matata faʻapolofesa o le ultrasound.

Masalo o loʻo i ai ni taʻiala tacit e faʻafefe ai fafine mai le faʻamutaina o se maʻitaga ina ia faʻateleina ai le fanau mai?

Oh no. Against. In this situation, a Russian woman experiences incredible psychological pressure from doctors, she is actually forced to have an abortion. Many women told me about this, and one of them shares this experience in my book — in its second, journalistic, part. She tried to insist on her right to report a pregnancy with a lethal pathology of the fetus, give birth to a child in the presence of her husband, say goodbye and bury. As a result, she gave birth at home, with a huge risk to her life and, as it were, outside the law.

I Siamani, e oo lava i se tulaga e iai se tamaititi e le mafai ona ola, ae le o le taʻua o se tamaititi e tutusa le Down syndrome, e masani lava ona tuʻuina atu i se fafine le filifiliga pe tatau ona lipotia se maʻitaga pe faʻamutaina. I le tulaga o le Down, ua ofo atu fo’i e asiasi i aiga o lo’o tutupu a’e ai fanau o lo’o maua i le ma’i fa’apenei, ma ua fa’ailoa atu fo’i o lo’o i ai i latou o lo’o fia vaetamaina lea tamaititi.

Ma i le tulaga o faaletonu e le fetaui ma le olaga, ua taʻu atu i le fafine Siamani o lona maitaga o le a faia e pei o isi maʻitaga, ma pe a uma ona fanau, o le a tuʻuina atu ia te ia ma lona aiga se isi uarota ma le avanoa e faatofa ai i le pepe. iina. Ma foi, i lana talosaga, e valaauina se ositaulaga.

In Russia, a woman does not have a choice. Nobody wants a pregnancy like this. She is invited to go through «one step at a time» for an abortion. Without family and priests. Moreover, even in the case of non-lethal, but severe pathologies, the model of behavior of doctors is usually the same: «Urgently go for an interruption, then you will give birth to a healthy one.»

Aisea na e filifili ai e te alu i Siamani?

Na ou manaʻo e alu i soʻo se atunuʻu o loʻo faʻamutaina i se taimi tuai i se auala faʻaletagata ma malamalama. Ma le isi, sa taua ia te au le i ai o ni au uo po o ni aiga i lenei atunuu. O le mea lea, o le filifiliga sa i le faaiuga mai atunuu e fa: Farani, Hanikeri, Siamani ma Isaraelu.

I Farani ma Hanikeri na latou teena aʻu, aua. e tusa ai ma a latou tulafono, e le mafai ona faia le faapau pepe tuai i tagata tafafao maimoa e aunoa ma se pemita nofomau poʻo se tagatanuu. I Isaraelu, na latou sauni e talia aʻu, ae na latou lapataʻia o le a tumau le lipine mumu a le malo pe a ma le masina. I totonu o le Berlin Charité clinic na latou fai mai ai e leai ni a latou tapulaʻa mo tagata ese, ma o mea uma o le a faia vave ma faʻaletagata. O lea na matou o ai iina.

Don’t you think that for some women it is much easier to survive the loss of a «fetus» and not a «baby»? And that parting, funerals, talking about a dead child, correspond to a certain mentality and are not suitable for everyone here. Do you think this practice will take root in our country? And does it really help women relieve themselves of guilt after such an experience?

Now it doesn’t seem to. After the experience I had in Germany. Initially, I proceeded from exactly the same social attitudes that practically everything in our country comes from: that in no case should you look at a dead baby, otherwise he will then appear in nightmares all his life. That you should not bury him, because «why do you need such a young, children’s grave.»

But about the terminological, let’s say, acute angle — «fetus» or «baby» — I stumbled immediately. Not even a sharp corner, but rather a sharp spike or nail. It is very painful to hear when your child, although unborn, but absolutely real for you, moving in you, is called a fetus. Like he’s some kind of pumpkin or lemon. It doesn’t comfort, it hurts.

As for the rest — for example, the answer to the question, whether to look at it after the birth or not — my position changed from minus to plus after the birth itself. And I am very grateful to the German doctors for the fact that throughout the day they gently but persistently offered me to “look at him”, reminded me that I still have such an opportunity. There is no mentality. There are universal human reactions. In Germany, they were studied by professionals — psychologists, doctors — and made part of statistics. But we have not studied them and proceed from antediluvian grandmother’s conjectures.

Yes, it is easier for a woman if she said goodbye to the child, thus expressing respect and love for the person who was and who is gone. To a very small — but human. Not for pumpkin. Yes, it’s worse for a woman if she turned away, didn’t look, didn’t say goodbye, left “as soon as possible to forget.” She feels guilty. She does not find peace. That’s when she gets nightmares. In Germany, I talked a lot about this topic with specialists who work with women who have lost a pregnancy or a newborn baby. Please note that these losses are not divided into pumpkins and non-pumpkins. The approach is the same.

O le a le mafuaaga e mafai ai e se tamaitai i Rusia ona teena le faapau pepe? Afai e tusa ai ma faʻamatalaga, o lona uiga o le taotoga e aofia ai i totonu o le inisiua pe leai?

E mafai ona latou teena pe afai e leai ni faʻamatalaga faafomaʻi poʻo agafesootai, ae naʻo se manaʻoga. Ae e masani lava o fafine e leai ni faʻailoga faʻapea o loʻo i le masina lona lua ma e leai se manaʻoga e faia. A lē o le mana‘o i se pepe, pe a lē mana‘o fo‘i, ua uma ona faapa‘u pepe a o lei atoa le 12 vaiaso. Ma ioe, o le faʻalavelave faʻalavelave e leai se totogi. Ae na'o nofoaga fa'apitoa. Ma, ioe, e aunoa ma se potu faamavae.

O le a le mea na sili ona e fiafia i ai e uiga i na faʻamatalaga mataʻutia i luga o faʻasalalauga ma faʻasalalauga lautele na e tusia e uiga i ai (na e faʻatusatusaina i isumu i lalo)?

I was struck by the total absence of a culture of empathy, a culture of sympathy. That is, in fact, there is no «ethical protocol» at all levels. Neither doctors nor patients have it. It simply does not exist in society.

Since we are Puritans, for the sin of copulation, a dirty woman is entitled to suffering — from sexual infections to childbirth. And since we are Sparta, we must go through these sufferings without even uttering a word. Hence the classic remark of a midwife at childbirth: “I liked it under a peasant — now don’t yell.” Screams and tears are for the weak. And there are more genetic mutations.

An embryo with a mutation is a culling, a spoiled fetus. The woman who wears it is of poor quality. Spartans don’t like them. She is not supposed to have sympathy, but a harsh rebuke and an abortion. Because we are strict, but fair: do not whine, shame on you, wipe your snot, lead the right way of life — and you will give birth to another, healthy one.

O le a se fautuaga e te tuuina atu i fafine ua tatau ona faamutaina se ma'itaga pe ua fafano? E faapefea ona ola ai? Ina ia aua neʻi tuʻuaʻia oe lava ma aua neʻi pa'ū i se faʻanoanoa loloto?

Here, of course, it is most logical to advise you to seek help from a professional psychologist. But, as I said a little higher, it is very difficult to find it. Not to mention that this pleasure is expensive. In the second part of the book “Look at him”, I talk exactly on this topic — how to survive — with Christine Klapp, MD, head physician of the Charité-Virchow obstetrics clinic in Berlin, which specializes in late pregnancy terminations, and performs not only gynecological, but and psychological counseling for their patients and their partners. Dr. Klapp gives a lot of interesting advice.

For example, she is convinced that a man needs to be included in the “mourning process”, but it should be borne in mind that he recovers faster after the loss of a child, and also has difficulty enduring round-the-clock mourning. However, you can easily arrange with him to devote to a lost child, say, a couple of hours a week. A man is capable of talking during these two hours only on this topic — and he will do it honestly and sincerely. Thus, the couple will not be separated.

Ae o mea uma nei mo i tatou, ioe, o se vaega o se olaga faʻaagafesootai ma aiga. I la matou auala, ou te fautuaina tamaitai e faʻalogo muamua i o latou loto: afai e leʻi sauni le loto e "galo ma ola ai", ona le tatau lea. E ia te oe le aia tatau e faanoanoa ai, e tusa lava po o a manatu o isi.

Unfortunately, we do not have professional psychological support groups at maternity hospitals, however, in my opinion, it is better to share experiences with non-professional groups than not to share at all. For example, on Facebook (an extremist organization banned in Russia) for some time now, sorry for the tautology, there is a closed group “Heart is open”. There is quite adequate moderation, which screens out trolls and boors (which is rare for our social networks), and there are many women who have experienced or are experiencing loss.

Pe e te manatu o le filifiliga e tausia se tamaitiiti ua na o se filifiliga a se fafine? Ae le o ni paaga se toalua? A uma mea uma, e masani ona faamuta e teineiti lo latou maitaga i le talosaga a le latou uo, le tane. E te manatu e iai le aiā a tane i lenei mea? E faapefea ona fai lenei mea i isi atunuu?

Of course, a man does not have the legal right to demand that a woman have an abortion. A woman can resist the pressure and refuse. And can succumb — and agree. It is clear that a man in any country is capable of exerting psychological pressure on a woman. The difference between conditional Germany and Russia in this regard is two things.

Muamua, o le eseesega i le tausiaina ma le aganuu. Ua aʻoaʻoina tagata Europa i Sisifo mai le laʻitiiti e puipuia o latou tuaoi patino ma faʻaaloalo i isi. Latou te matua fa'aeteete i so'o se togafiti ma fa'amalosiga fa'ale-mafaufau.

Secondly, the difference in social guarantees. Roughly speaking, a Western woman, even if she does not work, but is entirely dependent on her man (which is extremely rare), has a kind of “safety cushion” in case she is left alone with a child. She can be sure that she will receive social benefits, on which one can really live, albeit not very luxuriously, deductions from the salary of the father of the child, as well as other bonuses for a person in a crisis situation — from a psychologist to a social worker.

Ae paga lea, o se fafine Rusia e sili atu ona vaivai i se tulaga e le manaʻo ai le paaga i se tamaititi, ae na te faia.

O le faaiuga mulimuli, ioe, e tumau pea i le fafine. Ae ui i lea, i le tulaga o se filifiliga "pro-life", e tatau ona ia nofouta o loʻo ia tauaveina le tele o tiute nai lo se fafine Siamani faʻamaonia, o le a toetoe lava a leai sona aluga faʻaagafesootai, ma alimony, pe afai ei ai, e faʻavalevalea. .

Ae mo le itu faaletulafono: Na taʻu mai e fomaʻi Siamani ia te aʻu afai e oʻo mai i le faamutaina o se maʻitaga, fai mai, ona o le Down syndrome, o loʻo i ai a latou faʻatonuga e mataʻituina ma le faaeteete le ulugalii. Ma, afai ei ai se masalosaloga e filifili se fafine e faapau pepe i lalo o le uunaiga mai lana paaga, latou vave tali atu, faia se gaioiga, valaaulia se fomaʻi mafaufau, faʻamatala atu i le fafine po o le a le manuia lautele o ia ma lana tama e leʻi fanau mai e agavaa i ai pe afai o ia. fanau mai. I se upu, latou te faia mea uma e mafai ai e aveese ai o ia mai lenei uunaiga ma tuuina atu ia te ia le avanoa e faia ai se faaiuga tutoatasi.

O fea na e fanauina ai ni fanau? I Rusia? Ma pe na fesoasoani lo latou fanau mai e feagai ai ma mafatiaga?

The eldest daughter Sasha was already there when I lost the child. I gave birth to her in Russia, in the Lyubertsy maternity hospital, in 2004. She gave birth for a fee, «under the contract.» My girlfriend and my ex-partner were present at the birth (Sasha Sr., the father of Sasha Jr., could not be present, he then lived in Latvia and everything was, as they say now, “difficult”), during the contractions we were provided with a special ward with shower and a big rubber ball.

O nei mea uma sa matua manaia ma agaalofa, na o le pau lava le faʻafeiloaʻiga mai le Soviet ua mavae o se tina matua faʻamama ma se pakete ma se mop, o le na faalua ona malepelepe i lenei mea valea a matou, fufuluina malosi le fola i lalo o matou ma muimui filemu ia te ia lava i lalo o lana manava. : “Vaai i le mea na latou faia! O tagata masani e fananau mai i lalo.

I didn’t have epidural anesthesia during childbirth, because, supposedly, it’s bad for the heart (later, a doctor I knew told me that just at that time in the Lyubertsy house something was wrong with anesthesia — what exactly was “not right”, I do not know). When my daughter was born, the doctor tried to slip a pair of scissors into my ex-boyfriend and said, «Daddy’s supposed to cut the umbilical cord.» He fell into a stupor, but my friend saved the situation — she took the scissors from him and cut something there herself. After that, we were given a family room, where all four of us — including a newborn — and spent the night. In general, the impression was good.

Na ou fanauina loʻu atalii laitiiti, o Leva, i Latvia, i le falemaʻi failele matagofie o Jurmala, faatasi ai ma se epidural, ma loʻu toalua pele. O nei fanau mai o loo faamatalaina i le faaiuga o le tusi Vaai Atu ia te Ia. Ma, ioe, o le fanau mai o se atalii na fesoasoani tele ia te au.

There is such a thing as «empty hands». When you are expecting a child, but for some reason you lose it, you feel with your soul and body around the clock that your hands are empty, that they do not have what should be there — your baby. The son filled this void with himself, purely physically. But the one before him, I will never forget. And I don’t want to forget.